We’re back! This week YouTube’s very own Tiffany Ferguson (tiffanyferg) joined us as we got into some great topics. We spent time talking about white allyship and what it means to be an unapologetic supporter of the Black community. How does one be an ally without being performative? Why would a white person dismantle a system that they benefit from? Are Black people too mean to individuals who don’t understand race and privilege (black squares)? We get into it all! This is a great episode. Check out Tiffany’s Social Media: YOUTUBE: https://m.youtube.com/user/tiffanyferg INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/tferg__/?hl=en TWITTER: https://mobile.twitter.com/tiffanyferg?lang=en SEND US AN INTERESTING ANONYMOUS QUESTION BELOW!!! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSebwcH-zavRYLwvOO6Gq3tv7CmrkkqRF9Cj5uRdqENiR42MVA/viewform Tell a friend to tell a friend ! Be sure to leave a RATING/REVIEW on Apple Podcast! Thanks for listening ! FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justin_aiiz/ FOLLOW THE PODCAST PAGE: https://www.instagram.com/polaroppositespod/ FOLLOW DONTÉ https://www.instagram.com/_donnie_f/ LEAVE A REVIEW & SEND LETTERS! If you would like a question answered on air, email us! We want to hear your feedback and offer advice on your situation! Ask away! polaropposites.pod@gmail.com
We’re back! This week YouTube’s very own Tiffany Ferguson (tiffanyferg) joined us as we got into some great topics. We spent time talking about white allyship and what it means to be an unapologetic supporter of the Black community.
How does one be an ally without being performative? Why would a white person dismantle a system that they benefit from? Are Black people too mean to individuals who don’t understand race and privilege (black squares)? We get into it all! This is a great episode.
Check out Tiffany’s Social Media:
YOUTUBE: https://m.youtube.com/user/tiffanyferg
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/tferg__/?hl=en
TWITTER: https://mobile.twitter.com/tiffanyferg?lang=en
SEND US AN INTERESTING ANONYMOUS QUESTION BELOW!!!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSebwcH-zavRYLwvOO6Gq3tv7CmrkkqRF9Cj5uRdqENiR42MVA/viewform
Tell a friend to tell a friend ! Be sure to leave a RATING/REVIEW on Apple Podcast! Thanks for listening !
FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM:
https://www.instagram.com/justin_aiiz/
FOLLOW THE PODCAST PAGE:
https://www.instagram.com/polaroppositespod/
FOLLOW DONTÉ
https://www.instagram.com/_donnie_f/
LEAVE A REVIEW & SEND LETTERS!
If you would like a question answered on air, email us! We want to hear your feedback and offer advice on your situation! Ask away! polaropposites.pod@gmail.com
but blake does more than slacktivism he's out there in the streets man i am remember when we were at that blm march in louisville and i got so mad i threw a brick through the window of a wendy's i do and i actually think about that a lot it was crazy but sometimes you have to do what you need to do to send the message and when the cops showed up they did not take it easy on me they walked right up and took my friend to jail yes they did
um
welcome welcome welcome to another episode of the show we have a great episode as usual so excited for you guys to hear our guest we will introduce her in a second if you guys are new to this show this show is called polar opposites because my co-host dante and i we agree we disagree we always talk about important and relevant conversations dealing with entertainment pop culture music and politics and we never shy away from difficult conversations it's not always doom and gloom we do have fun i promise but you know it's always a great conversation and you guys are always here with us along the way and we appreciate it so if you love this show after hearing this be sure to subscribe tell a friend to tell a friend tell your memos and ppos and all of you new listeners tell your friends to subscribe we love it and we appreciate you guys for enjoying the show and listening to it it's always a good episode and i'm glad that y'all are coming on this journey with us dante how are you how was your week what's up with you i feel good um you know working out every day so keeping the mental strong you know you got to do what you got to do protect your mentals but it's a it's a good week how are you doing i'm glad you're having a good week i'm not having a good week so much has happened in the world we're probably gonna talk about it on this episode but it's not been a great week obviously i'm all about positivity and trying to keep a positive mindset so i'm not trying to worry about that too much but there are things that we obviously have to discuss by the time you'll hear it it'll be old news but i feel like since we always talk about relevant issues you all want to hear our conversation in regard to this issue but before we even get to that we have our guest that we need to introduce our first of many hopefully celebrities that are on the podcast tiffany ferg youtube's very own is joining us on this week's episode tiffany we're excited to have you on the show how are you doing
thank you for having me i am very flattered to be called a celebrity guest that's very generous yeah she escaped all the paparazzi to make this episode work we're so flattered that she's here but it's going to be great so tiffany the listeners might not be familiar with who you are so give the listeners a little bit about who you are what you do the basics name age social security you know all that kind of stuff so my name is tiffany ferguson my youtube channel is called tiffany ferg and yeah basically i'm a full-time youtuber now i just finished my bachelor's degree in media studies in december so now i'm doing you know full-time content creation which has been interesting i've been on youtube since i was literally like 11 like 2007 was when i made my first channel so i've seen a lot i've seen a lot of the youtube eras and everything and now i mainly do my series which is called internet analysis and it's basically a commentary series media criticism and analysis i like to talk about social issues and media which can include you know pop culture social media basically whatever i want kind of falls under that umbrella so it's easy to twist whatever i'm interested in and just try to structure it in a way that's hopefully entertaining and informative i will say i am a subscriber of tiffany's youtube channel i think that she does great stuff is part of the reason honestly why i asked her to you know be on this podcast episode because she does great work i know that she was very humble in the way she described her stuff but y'all she has a lot to brag about i'm telling y'all it's really good content about a variety of different topics and there's something for everybody i will say thank you so much that's very sweet i'm still i mean it's still very surreal so i don't know i think of myself as a a humble video creator that's all i was binging a couple episodes and i one of the ones i really liked was about female body hair then i wondered why do i have this averse reaction to my own body hair why am i grossed out at the look of a full armpit of hair or hairy legs or a full bush where does this come from especially with armpit hair i would think this just looks masculine i feel like i'm looking at a man's armpit which is interesting because everyone grows arm-fit hair therefore it is not inherently a male trait
that's a very informative episode i suggest anybody to watch that that's that's a really good episode so just give me a shout out thank you so much i appreciate it so let's get into off my chest justin's got a key
dante has got to get
justin and dante gotta get it off there so if any of you guys are new to this show off my chest is the segment where we get to rant about anything that bothered us we get to release some steam and just rant a little bit so tiffany you are our honored guest this week so what would you like to get off your chest this week okay well you guys sent me an outline of the episode the rough you know plan and you said it could be light-hearted so i'm gonna start with a light one because there's definitely some heavy that's gone on this week obviously i'm sure we'll discuss it but my lighthearted complaint is about communal laundry in my building i live in new york city so it's a big privilege to have laundry in your apartment at my old place it was in our basement and in my new place i have you know local laundry so usually i don't have issues but last time i went and i i posted about this on my my close friends and my story basically there was already stuff in the dryer and then i put my stuff in the washer i go okay by the time my washer's done the dryer will be open i go back and then they restarted their dryer knowing that my stuff was ready and i was like excuse me and every time i have these like it's always laundry that sets me off just because like i'm trying to be productive i'm trying to get my little errands done and get my laundry done and to have it thrown off by even one tiny little thing that was me that was me just a couple days ago and now i'm like well i never want to do laundry again because one of my neighbors is gonna be passive aggressive to me and um yeah so that's my tiny little complaint that i want to get off my chest the light-hearted one did you have two or one that's all i'll let you guys uh continue okay we have to talk about it so dante and i we kind of have a duel off my chest so you guys have been living in america another week another controversy has happened so obviously we have to address the elephant in the room which is derek chavin the police officer that put his knee on george floyd he got three guilty sentences we the jury in the above entitled matter has to count one unintentional second degree murder while committing a felony by the defendant guilty guilty of second-degree murder guilty of third-degree murder and guilty of second-degree manslaughter it was a surprise to me because i know that just looking at the past and everything that we've been through as a country the track record isn't good when it comes to police and accountability and when the verdict came in i was like okay three guilty verdicts love to see it i think it's great but at the same time you know i saw people celebrating and i think you know people have a right to celebrate especially the family getting some semblance of justice is important but i was like in the grand scheme of things is this really justice because you know george floyd lost his life at the end of the day if it was true justice he would still be alive today while the police are held accountable for their actions and that didn't happen but you know i have more to say but i want to hear dante's thoughts and you know get into his mind about what he thought about the whole ordeal well like you said right it was not justice isn't the right term for it accountability is the right term for it a man lost his life that's not justice i say on here every time we talk about these issues that cops are not the decision maker whether you are guilty or you're innocent or whether you should live or you should die their job is to protect and serve even if that means they apprehend you you should still make it to the police station alive regardless of the crime that that you allegedly committed but for the people that are being debited and that's why i hate twitter and i stay away from twitter for the people that are on twitter being debbie downers and saying yeah the people that are saying things like well i don't know why you guys are celebrating this is just one person out of thousands you know why people are celebrating because this doesn't happen often and it should you take somebody's life you should get punished for it so that's why people are celebrating because they've lived through seeing rodney king get beat up on camera in 1991 30 years before george floyd it was rodney king he was relentlessly beaten by los angeles police officers he was tased and hit more than 50 times with batons the four officers each faced charges of assault and excessive force the trial was moved from downtown los angeles to the more conservative simi valley where a nearly all-white jury was selected no convictions they've lived through trayvon martin it's almost been 10 years since trayvon martin so we've lived through these things so yes people can breathe a sigh of relief and say hey well i'm glad it worked out this time but we know the work's not done we know more cases are coming dante wright's case is going to be coming up this summer there's a lot more to be done but accountability is a good first step
and here's why this show is called polar opposites because i actually disagree with dante i think people can celebrate to a point and i'm not going to be one like twerking in the streets and shimming and shaking over this because at the end of the day he has not been sentenced the sentencing will happen in eight weeks and then we'll know how long he'll actually serve so how accountable will he be so that's why i say that people that are like why y'all celebrating kind of like have a right to say that because the work is not done and then what made it sad is that hours after the verdict was handed down i think makaya bryant is her name yeah she was gunned down which is another controversial case so i think that people that say that have a right to say that but what bothered me honestly was the politicians that came out and said thank you george floyd oh thank you for sacrificing your life nancy pelosi that was unbelievable i i can't help oh my goodness thank you george floyd for sacrificing your life for justice for being there to call out to your mom how how heartbreaking was that call out for your mom i can't breathe but because of you and because of thousands millions of people around the world who came out for justice your name will always be synonymous with justice she came out and said oh thank you george flores for sacrificing your life and then record scratch insert right here i was like sacrificed your life he did not sacrifice his life his life was taken unjustly so it's like what are these clueless democrats talking about and you know part of the reason tiffany's on here is because she's versed in politics what did you think about all of that tiffany first of all i try but also i i really struggle because i find it hard to to constantly stay in tune with politics just because it's like constantly disappointing the discussion we've had this week about it's like a step toward accountability or progress but it's not solving anything i feel like that's very reminiscent of when biden was elected it's like well i'm not necessarily happy about it i'm glad trump is out is this even gonna actually help us really in any substantial material ways and is anything going to be significantly different yeah this week i mean i i was surprised and it's like just the fact that there's even a question again after we've seen those cops kill george floyd we've seen it the the video is like the most clear evidence the fact that this had to be obviously you have to go through the legal process but like even then the fact that everyone didn't know how this would turn out because i think the number that i've been seeing is like 15 000 killings by police and maybe like under 10 convictions ridiculous there's no faith in the system of course not and honestly a whole different episode that we could get into is like policing and all of that and abolishing the police and all that could be a whole you know separate conversation dante did you have one thing to say yeah so i know that you know people maybe be like man you guys are talking about this well yeah if you're tired of hearing about it guess how tired we are of living it because that's our constant reality right yeah i don't know a a black person that doesn't have anxiety when they get pulled over your papers could be an order you could be you know an upstanding citizen nothing's wrong but i know if i see a cop behind me it's like all right both hands on the wheel palms are sweaty i don't know what's about to happen here like at the end of the day i just want to make it home i think that hopefully there are going to be more outcomes like what we saw in minneapolis with people being held accountable because at the end of the day the law system is for reform and to be a deterrent you don't wanna you commit a crime you go to jail you don't wanna go to jail don't commit crimes you don't wanna go to jail stop killing people that you're supposed to be arresting simple as that so hopefully other officers see this and they see what was important about this trial is that the blue wall the blue wall as they call it broke and he had other officers testifying against him so now that they see that this is possible hopefully it is a deterrent hopefully people don't mix up their taser in their gun as if that's a mistake or accident imagine if a heart surgeon oh i accidentally tripped up the wrong artery i'm sorry you know i'll keep my license it doesn't work like that when you make huge mistakes like that especially as a doctor they're held to a different standard and it's not fair honestly doctors have the power to not that they kill people but they have the power to end somebody's life if they're not careful same with police so why aren't the standards that they're held to equal makes no sense and to cap everything off about this before we get into the main topic let's not kid ourselves here the only reason why this verdict was the verdict that it was is because all of it was caught on video there were witnesses there was video evidence how can you after seeing everything say you know what not guilty it was clear and there's not enough you know instances of police violence that are clear these are the ones that are just documented but people don't think about the ones that aren't documented rodney king was so big in the 90s because that's when people had camcorders and people started videoing and they saw that and that happened all the time but that was one of the first instances where people saw wow the police why are they beating him brutally he's not even fighting back or resisting make that make sense so we also have to be you know honest about how this came to be but at the same time a semblance of justice was served but i'm still waiting on the sentencing yeah there's so much conflict i've i've thought about um like you mentioned abolition and you know you don't want to cheer for someone going to prison if you're against you know the concept of prison overall but of course in this situation you're like well in the society that we live in i'd rather this guy be in jail and the other cops that hopefully get convicted of this as well rather than having them you know be able to live their lives and get away with this it's such a tough conflict where you know again you don't you don't trust the police you want them to do the job that they're supposed to do protect and serve but we've seen endless examples that they don't do that and then you want to trust the justice system but then it's like again you can't you can't rely on this and you would hope that at least even just this bare minimum standard of there's so much proof there are so many witnesses there's so many people there that will you know testify against the person even in this situation or situations like this often the conviction doesn't happen and so that's that also lessens people's faith in this system justin i have an idea so we're talking about accountability and you know there needs to be deterrence right you know how right when they pass the crime bill they put in mandatory minimums right hey you get caught with this much weed it's over you're going to jail you get caught by 30 years your kids won't know their daddy maybe we should put in mandatory minimums for people that kill people that are supposed to be arresting in the line of duty because that's a major deterrent there hey right i guess i got to be a radical one today like please do yes you all know i like to tease and call dante radical left sometimes he is sometimes he says i'm radical left i don't think i'm radical left i'm left of center but i don't think i'm radical left or far left but dante he leans a little bit more left than me but that's okay dante that's okay let it be all right so um let's get into our main topic so we brought tiffany here today because you all know y'all listen to this show every week dante and i we tend to get into some serious topics and we never shy away from talking about race race is something that we have to confront and talk about and often we always have our perspectives but we lack a perspective from somebody who is white so tiffany is not the spokesperson for white people let me just say that right off the bat on this episode but i think that having her perspective on this episode is important and we're going to be discussing allyship on this episode and i feel like the universe just worked because i feel like there's not been a better week where tiffany could come on the show because allyship is very relevant right now so that's what we're going to be discussing on this episode and to preface let me just say this i think that tiffany is an ally just based on seeing her content and stuff so the question that i want to start out with tiffany is you know how did you come to have this mindset that you have how did you develop this world view and come to be this woke i guess i hate that word but it's been ruined it used to be it used to be a very useful term but yeah now it's been tainted with irony and cynicism but um yeah it's an interesting question i mean i going back to like my political you know journey i don't remember being like too political until i turned 18 and then i was like okay i'm going to start voting i want to start paying attention to the news and everything i remember i did start paying attention to black lives matter it was it would have been 2014 so i was 18 and that was when eric garner was murdered and and mike brown so that's when i started to pay attention to police brutality as an issue and again like this whole this whole conversation it's like it's wild to have a white person come and speak about racism because it's like we don't need my perspective i acknowledge how how crazy it is for me to say like oh i didn't really have to think about police brutality as an issue until this point that on its own is absurd in terms of my larger like political shift in my ideology that was definitely in 2015 i became a big bernie bro and um before then i feel like i was just like a standard democrat like i even found an old post on my instagram posting a cute old picture of hillary clinton who i now despise i don't know who created pokemon go
but i'm trying to figure out how we get them to have pokemon go to the polls like gonna vote for hillary and then i found out about bernie and his platform and it was a lot more you know further left and just deeper than the standard uh you know corporate democrat type of platform that hillary was running on don't even get a start i know i know it gets me needed but um from there i started to pay attention more to like you know wealth inequality and i was always pretty attuned into like class issues and then i you know learning about the disproportionate impacts on the ipoc communities so like slowly these pieces started you know building and my my ideology was built and now i don't really know what like my label is in terms of i don't know at some point i thought i was like a social democrat and then i thought i was a democratic socialist now i just use leftist as like a very vague term um but that's also because i know that my perspectives and my ideology is always shifting and i want to give myself room to learn more like it's not like i've read all the theory i don't think you need to read all this like dense political theory but like i can at least look at the existing political system that we have and see like this is all [ __ ] the overton window has shifted so far to the right like being called a radical leftist that supports bernie is like people say this all the time but like in other countries like in european countries it's like you're a centrist basically but we're called crazy you know commies over here right yeah all the time people say that you know i'm radical left because i think that people should have access to health care and you shouldn't have to choose between buying your life saving medicine and paying your bills every month but you know i'm radical but hey that's my hill to die on i'll take it i'll die people have a have a right to live for free or what oh my god it's like oh my god it's crazy down there in texas where justin's at you guys want to tax water tax air you want to do everything privatize your grid and that's why people died you know so i don't know i'll take my leftist title complain all you want dante the taxes are lowered no state income tax dante's from new jersey they tax stuff ridiculously over there tiffany's from new york her rent is probably crazy
but you know what in the winter when there's a storm we don't got to worry about people freezing to death and we don't got to worry about our senators flying to cancun either yikes but also it's not the texans it's not well it's some texans faults for you know who they vote for but generally especially with the those storms and how unprepared texas was in terms of infrastructure like yeah we shouldn't be blaming the average texan for suffering because of what their government has done exactly so tiffany i have a follow-up question if you don't mind okay no you're talking about since 2015 you've your worldview has changed in some of the molding that has happened to you as a person have you ever lost people who you thought were friends over some of your views and the way that you've grown as a person not really because again i think i was always i'm actually from southern california originally so i looking back i'm like okay i was clearly just like a standard democrat who like didn't think critically about anything but i was like you know vote blue whatever uh i'm liberal didn't know what that meant so um i think like like my hometown group of close friends that i'm still friends with even though i live across the country i'm pretty sure they're all leftists we're all aligned in those you know same ways i'm sure we disagree on some issues but um no i haven't had any major falling out with like friends because i just i haven't made those friends i think i would have weeded them out a long time ago did not finish my sentence there but um yeah i think even before i was like politically active like i think i was i was way more active in 2015 and and onward now i'm like excited about voting in primaries which is not something that a lot of people are even though i'm like well i don't know how much faith i have in you know voting but vote anyway but yeah i think even before that i was outspoken in different ways but i just think it was that there were less issues on my radar and so over time it's like you know you add all the depth of you know all the different things that you need to pay attention to i was unfair at the beginning of this episode i self-identified you as an ally but you never even said yes or no about whether or not you are an ally or not so let me just let you clarify on that before i you know put words in your mind well okay the whole the whole discourse about allyship has been really interesting because again like every every white person especially has learned a lot especially since last summer when the protests were at their peak black lives matter and so there was a lot of discourse about like what is an ally can white people declare themselves to be allies or is that something that can only be like put upon you by the black community or by other people of color so i've been hesitant i definitely do not want to be someone who's like i'm an ally because oh there's so much that gets into being performative or trying to prove that you're a good white person and that's just not only cringy but like just uncomfortable for me in terms of like do i support the black community and do i want to do everything i can to like dismantle white supremacy yes if that's what makes an ally great i've also seen i think it was the account no white saviors on instagram love their posts i think they posted something like you shouldn't be allies you should be co-conspirators i was like that's interesting but now it's like there's so much to the to the language of it but generally it's like yes do i support black lives matter of course do i try to integrate you know talking about race and other issues in my videos because that's like my main platform of course so i guess another question to bounce off of that question would be people always talk about politics and how people need to surround themselves with people that think differently so if you're a democrat it's good to surround yourself that's what they say with republicans or conservatives just so you can open up your world view i somewhat kind of agree with that but at the same time i'm learning that maybe i don't agree with that at all do you find it necessary um to surround yourself with opinions that are different from yours that might be polar opposites there polar opposites um oh god it's such a hard question too because yeah like people have had a lot of discussions again how do you deal with you know friends or family that you've realized are racist or homophobic or any other you know terrible identifiers and so i definitely have extended family that i strongly disagree with and anytime i see their posts or whatever i'm just like yikes and um i haven't really had the opportunity to have those like conversations um though i like to think that i would it's interesting because i'm like i feel like i'm outspoken like i'm definitely willing to have these conversations on youtube because like that's my platform and i feel like i get to you know say what i want to say how i want to say it but then it's like in person it can be a different situation because i'm very like non-confrontational and when do you want to really start a big fight or a discussion with your family at thanksgiving or like or just random people that you're interacting with it's like that's that's something that i've really felt bad about myself for like i feel like a coward because i've had situations where i've witnessed someone say something up like an another laundry situation random i had i was in my my other buildings like laundry basement with this like old white man and this other woman and he said something about her not speaking english or something oh great and i was just like i think i just uncomfortably stood there but i immediately felt like for not saying something and like directly standing up for her i was like why didn't i say something why didn't i call this dude out but then i'm also like well i'm trying to do my laundry and i'm not trying to like provoke a man in this basement like there are these like that sounds super shady yeah when it comes to like strangers especially or like like we've had a lot of conversations about bystander intervention lately too and i'm like yes i want to i want to learn how to do that i want to learn how to you know put myself in that position but then i also know i have the tendency of being like well i don't want to get attacked and i'm a small woman and i'm not very strong so like i don't know yeah i definitely balance it is a hard thing to balance and um it's it's tricky i don't know how to how to gain that confidence i guess to be willing to to put yourself in that position it's even it's even something like when it comes to protesting like you kind of have to know you might get pepper sprayed or you might get attacked you might get hit with something you might get beaten you have to be accepting and willing to do that i guess i've struggled with that but it also takes it takes a certain person to do that and i think there are different skills that people can use like not everyone has to be out in the streets and some people aren't able to do that but um yeah i definitely feel conflicted and coven yeah that was a whole other consideration as well i think that with your platform that you could probably you would reach more people speaking about these things than you would marching in the streets right or yelling at the guy in the laundry room right but you know you brought up you know where's where's the time to have those conversations in in person you know like are you ruined thanksgiving by saying hey uncle joe can you pass the stuffing by the way black lives do matter in this country you know you know that's super awful right let's get into it let's talk about abolishing the police yeah exactly right so but i have a follow-up question about that how uncomfortable is it to talk about these things with other white people i mean again it's like i've definitely had some conversation so i know i need to have more i guess my issue also is like especially in the in the last year and a half now i've been so isolated like i've only been in this apartment with my boyfriend so like my social reach is very small in terms of like actual physical interaction so i'm like huh thinking back to what it's like to interact with people that seems like you know a world away on one hand i struggle because um like justin your question was like how do you deal with people who don't agree with you they might be opposites like on one hand if people are like oh would you be friends with a trumpy conservative and i'm like no like no i wouldn't because like we would just not align on so many key issues that like i cannot imagine having a close relationship with someone like that but then on the other hand i know that us isolating ourselves and especially i'm on the left we have like the left eats itself so there's always someone who's more you know more radical than you or considers themselves to be more woke and so we tend to argue amongst ourselves but it's so important for us to learn to have those conversations and how to you know be willing to put in the time to like unravel these things so like i feel like the difference is like do i have the time and the space to like really get into it with this person because like i will sit and be like i will pull up my mental power point and be like let me tell you the facts that i know but i'm going to try to be you you have to try to be compassionate and a little understanding even if you don't think they deserve that because i think that's one of the more effective ways to get through to them i think the conflict is like you can rant at someone and you can call them you know a racist like conservative or whatever or you can try to get on their level and try to see where you have you know maybe some common ground and then maybe ask more questions to understand their viewpoints but that that level of patience is really hard to have yes tiffany i've been there done that yeah i feel your pain because i've had many opportunities to respond to these you know conservative cockroaches coming into my dms and writing me essays and stuff i'm like i don't have the time for that i don't have the time and i think there's so many times that we're challenged and if you don't have the energy you don't have to respond a lot of our listeners i would say are on the left and i feel like there's a lot of people listening to what you said and they might say that man if you have the choice to react and call somebody out and hold somebody accountable while you're there you should do it and by not doing it that might be like in a way privilege right giving them a free pass yeah because even though i'm black and you know obviously it's different for me there was one time when i was in college i came back home and i went to church with my family and there was a older white couple sitting in front of us in the pew in front of us and we had a guest like pastor whatever come in he was either asian or hispanic and he had a very thick accent i could make out what he was saying because my parents are nigerian so i'm used to you know an accent and hearing that all the time but they had no idea no idea right what he was saying so they were whispering to themselves the lady was like as he's speaking spanish what is he saying and they were saying it in a rude way to the point where other people can hear that exactly and that was making my blood boil i was like i can't stand this anymore and i got i think radicalized i guess in 2016 when trump came along and all of the people that i had to re-evaluate in my life i'm like don't trust you unfollow me block by like that was me so obviously this happened after 2016. so after the service was over everybody was getting up to leave and i said um excuse me excuse me what you were saying about that pastor was so disrespectful and as a member of this church i expect better you should be ashamed of yourself you really should and i'm embarrassed for you and i said that to them and the lady was like shook and i was like yeah you better be shook i love that i admire that so much and like again i want to be that person i feel like in my mind i'm that person but in person i'm like i don't know if i can actually speak up even in the even in a movie theater like people are sitting there whispering or eating their food really loud and i'm like i want to just be like hey shut up we're watching a movie and then i say nothing i'm like oh cool all of your you know conflict in your head is worth nothing if you can't speak on it but yeah no i i especially think in a situation like that though you're in at least a shared space so you do have something in common and maybe they'll respect you more because you're you know in the same community as them but also some people don't give a [ __ ] and clearly they were trying to be disrespectful like blatantly it's like again if you want to talk about that after and be like oh i couldn't really understand sure but like to be saying it loudly you're trying to get attention you're trying to make other people either agree with you or make the pastor in the situation uncomfortable it's like why i mean again i can't imagine being that person but right a lot of people behave that way right justin felt comfortable because he confronted them in a church and people are there to worship their lord but you have to remember you have to remember that it's texas and they're about that life with those guns so that was very brilliant just because they let them things off i don't care this is where stereotyping comes into play dante thinks that every texan is just wielding a gun and all this kind of stuff it's not like that we don't wear cowboy hats like that we don't ride horses in the streets i'm surprised come on this is news dante thinks that everybody's just packing a gun it's not like that especially in a church what are you defending yourself from in the church well actually
yeah dylan roof man like in my church we have somebody armed all the time now because of that just case somebody ever comes in there and tries to be crazy and that's the sad state of affairs that our world is in here's a heavy question let's get this heavy question out of the way tiffany white supremacy white supremacy in the system that we're in unfortunately this is the legacy of this country where people have been you know able to benefit based on everything that you know black people and other people have built for this country so with the advantages that you have you know as a white person and you know as a white woman what do you say to people that say that you're going against your best interest by trying to fight white supremacy because you already have it good so why make it harder for yourself by tearing down the advantages that you do already have right i know i've gotten comments sometimes like it's so funny anytime i even briefly mention race in a video i'll get some comments that are like like you're a race traitor you should be you know defending white ew i'm like no this is not the space for that so i'm on her videos this week actually when i was binging i've seen those comments so yes yikes oh god those people i'm just like no we do not agree this is not no this is not the space where that is going to fly and clearly like i just said it in the video why do you think you would uh change my mind in my comments whatever it's it's interesting because like the whole idea of obviously being a white person who benefits under white supremacy it reminds me of what men some men think will happen if we were to actually have a feminist world and like what what would they be losing by like you know it's always that idea like you're losing something because other people are gaining you know more equity or equality in society and it's just like i mean for me it's just like it really is just it is just a moral issue and like i cannot imagine especially being a leftist and caring about other issues that are all intersectional like you can't remove white supremacy from it you can't remove racism from all of the things that i'm in favor of so like first of all it would just be completely hypocritical for me to be like yeah like i think yeah we should have health care and housing for all but also like white supremacy doesn't exist it's like what the [ __ ] like it just doesn't it really doesn't and so also i'm like what do i have to lose like it i mean it's an interesting question i mean how would you know not living in a white supremacist society changed my life it's like okay i don't know if i go to get a job and then i have more competition okay like like that doesn't really harm me because again i've been in this privileged position already and it's hard to even theoretically discuss like how that affects me but then it's like on the other hand how would that change the lives of people who are not white and who have been actually suffering under white supremacy it's like clearly there's the um the difference there on youtube for example i could be very selfish and say like i want to dominate commentary and i don't want anyone else to be successful but it's like first of all i can't be everything for the commentary sphere and there are tons of topics that are not my forte not anything that i need to be speaking on so like recently i've been seeing so many great commentary channels you know up and coming especially black women in the commentary sphere and that was something that we so much needed because like for a long time it was dominated by like funny white guys and then you get you know somebody like me oh great a cis straight white girl you know like okay is that progress maybe a little but then it's like you know we only benefit as a community from you know more people having opportunities and it makes youtube a more interesting space and also just because people are watching other creators doesn't mean it really takes away from me i kind of think about it that way like it's just it's just a selfish thing to to think that i deserve like either as a white person or as a creator on youtube like a disproportionate amount of privilege or um attention or money or whatever it's like jeez i'm just trying to i am trying to remove myself from that and not be selfish basically i i don't understand it because making us whole does not take away from anybody else you know affording us the same opportunities at the same rates does not take away from anybody else no it's true it's true and i wish more people understood that like it's refreshing like talking to tiffany because she gets it she understands it but when i talk to other people it's almost an unwillingness to change or to think differently i think people sometimes get so comfortable in the world being the way it is but people never question why things are the way they are i always tell people that listen to the show question everything because things didn't just come here just because things happened a certain way and that's why we're experiencing the world that we're having now why is it that police are never held accountable why is it that black people always seem to die when it comes to any situation dealing with the rest it doesn't make sense like when we talk about i think micaiah bryant why is it that your first instinct is to go for a gun and shoot four times in somebody's chest rather than alleviating the situation why is everything always escalated but when i talk to somebody else it's like oh she had a knife they always try and justify it and my theory is they understand the truth and they know that by dismantling white supremacy their illusion and the way they see the world will change and they're so comfortable living in that fake reality that they don't want that to happen so that's why they enact all these voting laws because they see georgia turning oh my god diversity and everything everybody's going crazy the world is changing and you either go with the tide or you're a relic of the past i watched a video of a cop in colorado went to a call at a supermarket and a guy there i guess he was on drugs had two knives in his hands and he was chasing literally chasing the cop around his own car his own cop car for 12 minutes but you can pull up to a scene girl girls fighting they're young black girls one of them has a knife you shoot no questions asked but you let this man chase you around your car for so that's that's what we're we're getting at here right for anybody that says hey you know racism doesn't exist and you know has counterpoints to everything that we're discussing today if you're a white person honestly ask yourself would you want to be black would you want to trade spots with me or justin because i mean once you say no then you have your answer we have it a little harder when we saw what happened over the summer everybody was posting all these infographics and all of this you know helpful information to donate and people had things to say because they're like this is performative because i know for me that i was seeing people that i know that are racists that are posting all this stuff how to help black people i love black people black square fist of righteousness yes and i'm like this is so fake y'all are so fake so you know when you see that kind of stuff how does that make you feel because people think that when they post a black square their job is done oh i'm an ally i'm not racist i've done the bare minimum i can sit back and relax and it's over i'm done what do you think about performativeness with allyship and sorry so many questions are black people or people that want to hold white people accountable too hard on people that want to be allies but don't know the best way to do that so many good questions yeah the uh the summer there were obviously so many benefits from the rise of infographics and the rise of sharing petitions and you know people coming out saying like i haven't been political really before but i'm going to now and i'm going to speak about these issues that's all great but we did also very quickly have this question of performativity and yeah people have never spoken on it before why are you suddenly posting now maybe because people are asking you to post about it or demanding that you post about it i was thinking about it from of course an internet analysis lens i was like i'm going through this as a creator trying to navigate what to post and how to genuinely help because like i've been talking about you know political issues or racial issues or whatever so-called controversial issues for years so like that's never been an issue on my platform i think i've weeded out any people who are too you know opposed to that a long time ago i used to get people who are like how dare you talk about politics or talk about these issues like youtube should be a fun space i'm like no um not here like if i need to talk about this goodbye find somebody else who's going to be a political because there's plenty of people who will do that but um yeah so as a as a creator myself and someone with a platform that's where i was like okay i obviously want to be helpful this is a huge moment this you know i want to be part of it but then it's also like you're analyzing your own reasonings it's like am i doing this because i'm performative it's really hard to get to that point where you're like am i genuinely posting this because i need to or because it looks good even from people who do genuinely care so i feel like i got very self-aware and i was like i don't want to post anything because now i'm questioning it or like am i posting the right thing because there was a lot of stuff going around about either like police reform versus police abolition and like you don't want to be wrong so like which infographic do you share there's so much that goes into it this has been on my internet analysis list for a long time but i don't think i'll ever be able to cover it just because i don't think i could do the topic justice in the like extremely nuanced way that it needs to be covered but yeah it's like i mean there were there were some very clearly performative situations the black square that was such a such i mean we tried they tried anyone who posted it it was meant to be a good thing but it's like if you think critically about this for one second what does this accomplish that's that's kind of the question where like at least now where i continue to post things does it raise awareness do i link to a gofundme like can this materially help someone or can i spread awareness of someone who's missing or like something like you you can see what actions can come out of what you're posting versus like is it truly just a signal and that's what the black square was was like it didn't offer any information it wasn't informative and it wasn't helpful and it actually ended up taking up valuable space and so that was such a moment there was so much going on all in that one day where people are like now you've got to take down the black squares and now you've got to yell at the people who put them up and it's like haters it's messy and again it's like it all distracts from the actual issue it's so petty for you know then white people to be arguing with other white people about what we're posting and it's like jesus christ it's a lie right good intentions but horrible execution my thing was that let's do something where we do a mass donation imagine how much money they would have raised had they done a post as a reminder that you donated rather than just a black square that does nothing i was angry could you imagine a level of clout chasing people would have done if it would be like hey everybody donate on this day and then post your donation people like well i did five dollars and somebody else would go post again like well i did five hours earlier now i'm doing 15. that's a great idea justin
i want to answer a question that you asked tiffany i want to answer it from my perspective for a second when you said you know do you think black people are too hard on people that are trying to be allies but maybe don't know how to approach it the right way yes obviously obviously you are one of those people sometimes people don't have the knowledge and they want to know more their hearts might be genuine and pure and being like hey i want to help however i can we shouldn't attack those people we should teach them how to help us sometimes that's the way to get help you teach people how to help you but i think sometimes i like the sentiment let me just give you your applause and your flowers before i go into you but you know i feel like that kind of thinking god is here in the first place this kind of like your heart is in the right place and then i have people thinking that a black square is good enough to show that they're down with the cause but i expect more i'm not a bare minimum type guy i want you to do your best and give your best attempt at trying to do the right thing and i think that awarding and applying a black square and saying their hearts in the right place i don't think that's effective for anybody i wasn't talking about the black square specifically i'm just saying somebody that has it in their heart and in their mind that hey i want to be a part solution i want to help we should afford them the chance to be able to help and i think at times and not not specifically you not specifically you but at times black people especially black twitter is like oh the white people no keep them away from this no we can't let them help that's a misguided viewpoint i was just going to say from what i've seen there are so many cliches in this conversation now like again coming from white people who are trying to be allies or at least show that they're allies so many cliches that have been established in the last year now it's like listening and learning like oh if i hear one more person say that even though it's like yes you should be listening and learning it just now sounds so cringe for for me like as a as a white person i would not go into or like onto like a black person's page like on instagram the activists or writers that i follow they often post about like here's this white person being crazy in my mentions or in my comments i'm gonna call them out because this is my space and i have every right to do so it's interesting to watch those situations because it's like clearly i just don't understand these white people are going onto these pages they want to follow so that they can learn more about either the black experience that's vague or like whatever for whatever reason they're following and they're trying to be better but then it's like you're clearly not listening and i do think white people should probably shut up a little more even if you think you're shutting up enough probably a little bit more and if you're thinking about sending especially like a lot of them are black women if you're thinking about sending a black woman a message disagreeing with her experience like don't like you don't need to you don't need to say that you don't need to leave a comment maybe just sit on it for a little bit and think about it because i have seen some where it's just like again these these white people are trying to be helpful or trying to learn but they're also a lot of it comes out of like being defensive and being like oh well maybe you're being a little too harsh on the other white people it's like dude come on again we need to get rid of that sensitivity and again it's like kind of remind yourself we're in a white supremacist society you're trying to listen and be better but now you're jumping in to be like but don't don't be too mean it's like okay like if you can't handle like basic things or like getting called out for like very valid [ __ ] then like don't get in somebody's mentions or don't get in somebody's dms all you have to do is be passive to not do that like nobody's going to attack someone who didn't say anything to them so yeah just generally i would say as a white person myself i will never tell any black person that their response to something is wrong or like that they're being too emotional or they're being too angry not my place i have no reason to have an opinion on that and like the best you can do is like again if it's someone you support you want to you know follow you want to listen to their stuff great and if it's someone you'd so strongly disagree with just leave them alone like you don't need to be bothering them constantly and telling them how much you disagree because i'm sure they get enough of that you know
tiffany prayer cloth moment so that's whenever somebody makes a really excellent point we call that a prayer cloth moment we get out our prayer cloths and dab our forehead with the sweat tiffany oh my god congrats that was a pair o'clock moment you spoke some truth i feel like the problem that some white people have is that white people for the longest time have always been the center of every conversation and when a conversation is not centered on them they feel uncomfortable it's like ugh i don't matter so oh black lives matter what about white lives all lives matter i think that that's part of the issue i'll say that it's not on black people to always educate so that's what i was going to say in response to dante it's exhausting always having to educate some white person that doesn't get it and i think that that's the job of a white ally to educate that person that's uneducated definitely not black people because we're exhausted how many more conversations are we going to continue to have there are books there are resources that are things to read that you can do on your own a black person shouldn't have to tell you oh this is what i go through you know with history of white supremacy in this country here's what it is no we don't need to do that a lot of people were posting and some people weren't posting when it came to you know george floyd is it okay to say nothing at all on social media i think it's definitely important to say where you stand but it's also a little tricky because it's like this was a topic that i thought about even before like this last year but like just generally the idea of like how do people respond to tragedies um publicly online i think that's really fascinating like that went all the way back to do you remember when was it the notre dame that like got on fire in paris right when that would happen and um that happened and then everyone had to post like their memories of being in paris and it was like what the [ __ ] are you doing like why do you have to weigh in on this and act like you have this personal connection to this you know destination that you visited once but then you know in a more serious note like every time we have a mass shooting which again has had an uptick recently as well it became a thing where it was like there was this cycle of mass shooting and then people would say you know thoughts and prayers and then people would say yeah but we need gun control and then other people would say don't politicize this it's too soon and it was just so predictable because the way that at least twitter responds to these tragedies as a whole it's like it's always the same and and nothing productive tends to come out of it and it's just kind of it's frustrating to see it happen over and over so like yeah personally like i've i've never been really the type to when there's a random not random as in like meaningless but just like less connected to me there's an earthquake somewhere or there's a tsunami like i don't think anyone can feel obligated that they need to make a statement as an individual on twitter for each you know tragedy or event that happens but i mean clearly during the black lives matter protest this summer it's like that was literally everywhere and like if if you in that position make a choice not to speak on it at that point where literally everyone everyone's talking about it online like that is a little bit strange to to not have something to say right and i just don't understand your side like again if you if you're yeah exactly if you're if you're in favor of black lives matter and you support this and you think it's [ __ ] up that george floyd was just murdered by a police officer or like multiple police officers why would you not speak on it the whole neutral i think it's the idea of the the white moderate the idea that like we can just sit back and not have to speak on things that is its own position and that can be an extremely harmful position to not speak out about issues right because then mlk say or maybe malcolm x said that i think the most dangerous person is the the moderate or the person that chooses to not take a side i have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the white citizens counselor of the ku klux klan but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice who constantly says i agree with you and the goal you seek but i cannot agree with your methods of direct action and the only reason i asked this question is because i was you know thinking and reflecting on myself and my actions and i was like did i go too far because what i did when it came to the george floyd situation obviously like tiffany said it was so big and if you weren't talking about it's like why aren't you saying anything what is your opinion on this so for every person that i saw staying quiet suspiciously i went and unfollowed them because i was like nah you're not somebody that i can trust why aren't you saying anything at all it's very concerning to me to have that type of person around you i think that people really have to reflect about the people that they surround themselves with or the people that they call friendly or friends or whatever because you're not friendly or a friend to me if you're staying quiet on this huge issue i've always had the opinion prior that celebrities or people in the public eye don't have an obligation to say anything and i somewhat agree with that i disagree when it comes to huge issues like that because it was so prevalent everywhere i think there are certain baselines that i have for you to say that where at least acquaintances are friendly or whatever hey you have to acknowledge that black people have it a little tougher here right you have to acknowledge that racism exists if we can't get past those two things and it's like hey i don't we don't have to have anything to do with each other because you don't believe in facts and common sense honestly i don't need that around me yeah right i know that's the that's the sad and funny thing is like we're not talking about amorphous kind of theories or ideas it's like no you can look at so many facts decades and hundreds and thousands of years of facts actually to to prove that like again white supremacy is a thing racism is a thing the fact that like some people really want to have that argument be like well i don't really know if that was a bench hero voice it just had to come out answer a clue so again that has nothing to do with race and saying that things have nothing to do with race is a pretty good way of explaining that things have nothing to do with race it's hard to be branded a racist when you keep saying over and over things have nothing to do with race that don't have to do with race exactly it's like well actually it's like no okay now clearly like you're just not even existing in the same realm of reality and that's yeah i can totally understand why you you can't you're not even on the same page there's no way you're gonna get to the same page if someone at this point can't at least acknowledge the basic facts and i'm not an activist i'm not telling everybody to get out your pitchforks or whatever they call it picket fence they say ride after every single thing whatever it's called i'm not saying that you have to be an activist because i'm not an activist and i'm never gonna pretend to be an activist and that's why i sometimes think it's a pandora's box to post about certain issues and then to stay silent on another because people are gonna be like well what about this issue did you not think that that was important to post on your story or whatever and i don't wanna open that pandora's box for myself i know where i stand and the way that i can kind of neutralize that i have a platform if there's something important that i'm passionate about i can talk about it on the show i don't have the post about every single police incident i don't have to see that's that's the important thing about how you both talked about performative actions earlier right when that shooting happened in atlanta that targeted asian americans i didn't post any infographic on my story or anything like that but the first thing we did when we recorded an episode that we was address it and talk about it right so just because i don't post a performative action doesn't mean that that's not where my sympathies and thoughts lie and i agree with you 100 there justin see we do agree sometimes see what happens it happens it happens y'all yeah it is it is really tricky again especially as someone who you know is a an influencer in some way you are um this idea that i know i'm like sure content creator whatever you want to call it someone with a following sure um i i have felt very conflicted um about which things to post about and knowing that people may note what you're posting about and even something as tiny as like oh do i keep my little story like saved things updated because like maybe maybe i've posted a highlight or something that's relevant to black lives matter but i didn't put in my highlight now someone's gonna see that it's been however many weeks it's like it's so weird to get to that point where like again your focus is like how do i look how are other people gonna perceive me like what are people gonna think if i don't post about this thing but also i do think we should be very careful about protecting the label of activists because i think for a minute there everyone was like yes i'm an activist i am an activist now i post the tweets and i post the infographics and it's like we really should be careful to not let people get that claim because the people who are really doing the work in person and like putting in the time and you know volunteering and literally putting their lives on the line in a lot of situations those are the activists yes other people we are we are consumers of media we are you know people who are trying to keep up with current events but yeah it's it's tough and then you get to the point where it's like how much how much bad news and how much trauma can you handle every week i feel conflicted because i've been off twitter for like a couple months now except when i have like video promos and stuff but i used to be addicted to twitter and it was like my main source of news and i would primarily use it to like boost important news or essays or takes but then i was like this is overwhelming for me i cannot spend any more time on twitter just because it's like as we all know it's an exhausting place um but then i felt very guilty that i could essentially turn off you know my attention or like i wasn't going to be paying as close attention to these important issues and what if i was less informed and i wasn't promoting things on my twitter my twitter's not like massive but like it's still another platform so it's very difficult but then i also am like well again i have the privilege of being white and it's not like i'm seeing epidemics of white people getting killed or arrested or anything else it's like so when specifically like black people talk about not being able to handle seeing other black people being killed or harassed or whatever it's like i can't even imagine what that level of you know daily trauma and again like nobody should be expected to post about everything and have a statement about everything because like you need that time to process things emotionally and to not feel compelled to tune into every single tragedy that is occurring because i mean it is constant especially with our you know global social media
tiffany came on here and started preaching wow she did we gave her the outline she's like i'm gonna prepare for this i love everything that tiffany is saying so far thank you i think it's so funny that you talked about you know people claiming to be activists like they posted that black square once and they changed their profile to public figure slash activists on instagram
white people are slowly going to become a minority i've been reading studies that are saying by 2050 or by 20 whatever white people will be a minority in this country and it's scaring people you know it's a lot of white people are scared they're like oh my god our power is going oh my god oh my god and i can't begin to imagine how that feels as a white person to be in the perspective of a minority coming soon right and then it's like don't you have to acknowledge then that being a minority in this country is scary because now you're scared of it interesting if there's nothing wrong with or if there's nothing threatening or whatever then why would you be concerned exactly i don't think that don't take that white people will have to worry about what it feels like to be a minority even when in the numbers since they are minority because they still hold a lot of the power right they are still on these boards they are still the ceos they are still the senators and the representatives and the president you know so i think at least in our lifetime we won't see what those true effects of white people being in a minority is because they are still in the position of power right very true especially again when you look at like wealth inequality for example it's like again looking at the numbers it doesn't make sense that like oh the poor billionaires are only a tiny percent of the population it's like well clearly they're not struggling and that they are still able to hold on to so much power and wealth so it's like yeah in that same way no matter i mean again we're gonna have to dismantle this over time but like even if we're a smaller portion of the whole country there's still gonna be cities and states and a lot of rural areas especially that are going to be still completely dominated by the white populations and it's going to be interesting it's going to be interesting to see how the demographics shift i'm i'm interested to see that but also i'm like yikes oh it's just going gonna create more uh more conflict in different spaces i think right it's gonna be basically all the liberal sane-minded people live on the coast of the country and then everybody yeah that you know i'm sick but that's kind of what the demographics are now hey that's controversial dante what are you trying to say i'm talking if you look at voting maps no if you look at voting maps it's blue on the coastlines the mid-atlantic the northeast california then the more inland you get is the more red you see usually until you get to big centers of you know big cities like you have a chicago and a milwaukee and a detroit and everything like that you've got the liberal elites on the coast exactly you know we love we love it here right i'm like sorry the beach is really nice i don't know you gotta say if you know you know if you know you know i wouldn't know but we no you wouldn't but we talked about you know people changing over time demographics changing over time but isn't it interesting how we self-segregate here so justin i heard you talk about how you were in church and there's an older white couple in front of you and then there's a hispanic preacher like i live in a very liberal state that don't happen here like my church is all black people that's not to say white people are welcome we've had white people become members and join and everything but my church is the black church and down the street there's the white church yeah that's fascinating it depends on the way you see you call itself segregation i call it community like i always say in all our past episodes there's nothing wrong with interesting your own community i'm no i'm being serious there's nothing wrong with taking pride no i'm agreeing i think it's great you said self-segregation though that kind of has a negative connotation to it because it's like we only want to be with our own people we only you know well that does happen though i think that more so applies to specifically white people trying to self-segregate because again it's like we've seen like white flight like they strive to give their kids good values and access to better things which is one of the reasons we moved from uh martin luther king drive to 74th and euclid because my mom wanted us to have access to then what were better schools but unbeknownst to us we grew up in the period as i write uh called white flight that as families like ours upstanding families like ours you know who were doing everything we were supposed to do and better as we moved in white folks moved out because they were afraid of what our families represented it makes sense for you know black folks or other communities of color to want to find their communities and have their neighborhoods because like clearly again because of all of these structural issues and [ __ ] like you want that comfort you want that community um whereas with white people it tends to be like oh i want to be in a safe neighborhood which has its racial coding usually or like i want to be in like a wealthier area or like i just feel more comfortable around certain people and yeah that's a big yike so that's something i'm trying to be aware of as i well i live in new york so it's kind of like you know melting pot i'm specifically which i've really enjoyed because i i think i've seen different neighborhoods and different uh neighbors than i would if i were in like the super gentrifier areas but also i am a gentrifier because i'm you know an outsider living in the city but it's something i'm trying to be aware of in the future it's really hard to think like i don't really have um roots and so that's something i think about like my family's from mostly like western states but it's not like i have a hometown where like my family goes back generations so i just feel like i'm gonna be a gentrifier wherever i go i kind of have to accept that come to grips um right but like but also how can you do that without again like instantly moving to like the white or whatever neighborhood or or completely taking advantage of gentrification and accelerating it by taking advantage of housing that you don't need to be displacing um but yeah it's it's interesting it's also completely unrelated or somewhat i a question i've had and something that i've wanted to do an internet analysis on that is so controversial and funny is like do white people have culture that just makes me laugh because i'm like on one hand i truly feel like i have no culture because again like my family like some of them came from like ireland or scotland like however many generations back some came from like canada so like that there's not a lot of culture there and there's not a lot that like remains in my family in terms of traditions and i always just laugh because like i just feel like white people are so like it's it's funny to be a white person laughing at white people because it's like it's almost a cliche like i'm not i'm not like the other white people ha ha white people are so silly but i i do laugh at us because i'm like honestly let's at the very least we can make fun of us because it's valid um but i just laugh because i just i wish i had that culture and i'm i'm jealous of people who have more you know traditions or roots in a particular place or when you think about what white culture would be defined by it's [ __ ] embarrassing it's racist it's problematic in every way probably like what what non-problematic things are distinctly white culture aside from like any embarrassing like i don't know just like uh fourth of july fireworks burgers like yeah sandals like that's all we have it's interesting because i actually did an episode a long time ago about white culture and what exactly is white culture and we had a hard time you know asking that question and defining it it's like what is their culture and then when i had an episode with my friend steffi we were talking about you know are white people able to have pride in their own culture and their own thing and now that you're on the show i get to ask that to another white person do white people have a chance or the ability to celebrate themselves because think about it black people have black pride we have black organizations in college there's no like white student association should white people have a space for themselves and if not you know is that fair that they don't it's so embarrassing because it's like how the hell are you gonna brand anything white pride and have that not instantly be like okay nazis um jesus i i don't think we need it we're not in a position where we're again it's like under white supremacy or like when you're not a minority when you have all this power you are not in the position where you need a dedicated like place that's why we have like lgbt pride because you know heteronormativity and like so again it's like straight pride white pride just don't even try it that's embarrassing and unnecessary and you're making i hate when people are like oh you're making yourself the victim because that's annoying but also you kind of are in that position where it's like in what instance do you need to celebrate your white pride and again what is that what does that even mean there's there's not much to that in my experience unless we're talking about again i don't know people who want to celebrate their confederates oh my god family members and then i'm like please no we don't need to celebrate that ever again oh my gosh well justin justin you talked about like having black student council why isn't there white student council and things like that it's because they kept us out of those so that's why we had to start our rooms right that's why there's hbcus that's why there's these groups and these associations that are for black people we had to start them because we couldn't get a seat at the table so we had to make our own table you know no you're right and it was a hypothetical question i always sometimes play devil's advocate more so it's dante that likes to play devil's advocate but you know i had to you know beg to ask the question because this is a rare opportunity to ask you what you think about that because there's honestly you think we laugh now but there are people i swear to you that believe that white people are should be able to have their own pride in their own culture and i find that very interesting because what exactly are you celebrating well you're allowed to be proud of who you are as a person sure yes yeah but like yeah beyond that it's like what are you proud of let's get into that it might be tough as an ally sometimes because most people might think that in order to be an ally you almost have to like bash on yourself all the time how has that been like always being the brunch of jokes always you know man why people suck did you ever have white guilt especially when you were learning about stuff like slavery in school it's like damn our people are sick what's wrong with us literally um i'm fine with like the jokes about white people again same with like jokes about straight people like you cannot tell me like that we're disadvantaged in any way like we can handle some jokes we can handle being clowned on and we deserve it um but also yeah i'm not i'm not like literally self-hating i don't hate myself because i'm white i was born into this body and whatever but like yeah you also have to acknowledge like okay i'm white and what does that mean about my position in the world what can i do with that i have white privilege how can i use that to not be a person i think that's it's very easy to fall into that it's definitely easy like when i think back on you know my past again i think i now that we've kind of defined that whole idea of like the distinction between non-racist or like not racist versus anti-racist i think back to my not racist quote unquote life where i basically didn't have to consider race on a daily basis because it wasn't relevant to me in a direct way so like i think back on that and i definitely do have guilt and embarrassment and shame because it's like how the [ __ ] was i so ignorant how could i possibly be in that position but then i realized it's not productive for me to beat myself up by being like oh you weren't aware of things sooner like okay sure like again it doesn't it doesn't benefit anyone it doesn't make me a better person to like beat my past self up i have to acknowledge that that's a part of my history and like my progression as a person or politically or whatever yeah i think it's important to as a white ally or just a white person like try to you know acknowledge the feelings you have if you have white guilt or white tears about something or you're centering yourself in these issues again very cliche things that now people have said a million times and if you're feeling defensive about people making fun of white people or saying that white people are all racist and horrible it's like you can you can sit with those thoughts and feel them but like move on because like again me just sitting here and being like i hate white people it's so embarrassing that i'm white i i feel so bad that i was doing what doesn't help and it's honestly not not even interesting to listen to so yeah it's like okay move on do something productive yeah because a lot of people do feel that you know a lot of white people saying oh in regard to slavery it wasn't me i didn't do that yeah you know you might not have been a slave master but maybe you had a relative who was so if we're living in this society and we want equality for everyone you know what are you doing about that it's it's not even it's not even that excuse me about having a relative who may have been a slave holder right it's it's about besides that it's about hey you've kind of had a 400 year head start right we've kind of been kept out of places and situations and institutions that you've built that we weren't allowed into we've gotten redlined to live in certain neighborhoods and that's why we have ghettos and now they're coming back and gentrifying them like you talked about earlier uh we couldn't get bank loans got passed up for jobs so it's kind of about that 400 year head start i don't even want to talk about if your family owns slaves right it's about you've had advantages and have been able to get to situations that we couldn't we couldn't own land or own property that's how you build wealth and generational wealth is owning things and we weren't allowed to do that so that's kind of where when people have that argument that's what makes me mad and i get defensive like hey it's it's not about you and your family specifically man right sorry i don't know i'm glad you clarified honestly because that's the point that i agree with as well that i wish i included and what i said honestly because you know you have to come to grips with the truth and i think that when some white people realize that some of the benefits that they have in life are due to the unfair advantages and all the stuff that they've been given that aren't technically earned they get defensive because if i'm born into this stuff i feel like oh this is right and this is just the way things are but it's not you know those things aren't given to you by divine right it was stolen right i know it's like all all discussions of privilege where people get a little defensive and they're like well i had struggles or you know or i was a you know a poor white person therefore i had you know all these obstacles and it's like yes you did everyone has their own challenges and obstacles and we're all at different levels but that doesn't mean that you still didn't have some sort of a privilege and just acknowledge it and move on again it's like we don't have to we're not saying that you didn't earn anything in your life or that you're undeserving forever that whole point reminded me of um like in the discussion for reparations that would be like if we were like yeah we're gonna make this really complicated we're going to actually go back in everyone's ancestry try to find who you know the slaveholders were and who their current uh ancestors are today we're going to charge them and then we're only going to you know trace back the enslaved people to it's like no that's so ridiculously complicated and that again completely disregards the institution of everything and that you didn't literally have to have your family directly benefit from this because again i think my family was i think they came in like maybe the early 20th century they weren't i'm pretty sure none of my family were uh slaveholders but like still they came and they were white and they got to maybe go to ellis island and have a head start because they were white and they were able to get jobs and they were able to get established and get property and like that's that's as simple as it is even if you're a white person who's maybe like a second generation in america okay you still had that head start and you had all those benefits and they may seem invisible to you i think that's what it is it's like as a white person it feels like there's nothing like it's not like i go to the white line at the [ __ ] store yeah like it's not maybe that clear and then there's the people who talk about like oh what about affirmative action like actually it's really hard for white people to get into college now because they're prior to it's like shut up or you have so many privileges did you go to a good public school did you get to benefit from higher property value and then taxes and revenue into your education there are so many factors did you get yeah did you get tutors like are your parents college educated there are so many factors and yeah it's it's exhausting yes man tiffany that was another prayer cloth moment dab your forehead please i am honored that that was my favorite that was good that was good this is yeah this is great this is amazing yeah dante do we have any questions that we definitely want to ask tiffany before we kind of wrap things up i don't want to take too much of her time she's a busy woman i know i know no i think that we've had a really good and open discussion and you know i have one more question before we wrap up but i want to make sure you're not going to ask the question so i'll just go ahead and do it now what would you say to other and i'm doing air quotes for everybody listening to this and not watching um what would you say to other white allies or people who want to be an ally you know what would your advice be to them i guess specifically in my sphere of like internet people or youtubers or whatever anyone with an influence i would you know tell them to figure out ways that you can put your allyship or your education or whatever you're learning and listening to like put that into your work try to try to spread that in a way that's like natural to you um again i think i'm i'm lucky in the sense that like talking about social issues including racism is relevant to like the work that i do i know that some people do maybe like lifestyle or beauty videos and that might not seem as relevant but there are still ways that people can use their platform and you can get a little creative or even like you know just what you choose to share what you choose to start your video with there are ways to to highlight that and to use your platform without it being like okay now you need to change your channel to like a i'm a white ally activist channel i'm like actually please don't do that i mean that was a great answer this has been honestly a great episode like i expected it to be tiffany honestly thank you so much for your time for coming on this show it really does mean a lot plug yourself for the people oh thank you uh the youtube channel is tiffany ferg f-e-r-g tiffany ferguson my twitter is also tiffanyferg though i'm not very active on that anymore instagram is at t ferg double underscore worst username ever but i'm sticking with it okay um but yeah it was so great to talk with you guys and it's nice to have a white person in the hot seat for once because i feel like again like i feel like so many black people especially in internet spaces are like invited to talk about racism or like here let's have the racism episode and it's like jesus christ like there's so much more um that you can discuss rather than you know trauma and [ __ ] so i'm glad to be uh taking the hot seat and hopefully uh representing myself as a white person in a useful way no you did the thing you did the thing you had two prayer cloth moments you did a great job and you guys that are listening you made it through the end if you've made it this far in the conversation you are a true listener you're a secret listener or whatever but we appreciate it either way thank you guys so much for making it through to the end these are the type of conversations that we like to have here on this podcast because they can be funny they're relevant and they're important that's the goal with this show and i hope you guys share it and love it we love making it for you guys so you know continue listening and continue helping us grow because we appreciate it so much dante i guess you can take us out all right guys thank you for listening thank you for sitting through this very special episode and thank you again to tiffany for joining us on this episode as always please like share subscribe go tell your friends to tell their friends about it for justin i'm dante we're polar opposites thank you for listening we'll catch you on the next one bye guys